ISV Talks
ISV Talks
MetaViewer Talks AI, AP Automation, Document Management and Why ISVs Are Joining Forces
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
On this episode of the ISV Talks podcast, Carol Livingston interviews Eric Fabian Humes, MSc. MBA of MetaViewer Paperless Automation from Metafile to discuss the evolving landscape of AP Automation. They dig into what’s changing in AP Automation, including a powerful new trend: ISVs joining forces to deliver stronger, combined solutions for customers.
Eric also walked through how MetaViewer Paperless Automation from Metafile is using AI to elevate AP Automation and Document Management across the ERP platforms they integrate with.
A Migration That Stays Stable
SPEAKER_00They're offering from just school buses now like offering it to all of the colleges, universities, and even seniors living across Michigan. And by growing that, they're like, okay, we need to go to the cloud. We don't want to have a data center in-house anymore. We need that office space. So then we were able to take them to the cloud from being on-prem. And then from there, they're like, okay, well, GP's going away. We got to make that move. So then we were able to then take them from the cloud on GP over to the cloud in BC. And their quote to us is like, you offered us that center of calm amongst the chaos of change. And that's really powerful when you think about when bills are getting paid, when that invoice is that things are still working through the process. And no matter where people are being pulled or their attention's being directed, that there's still something that you can trust. It's going to work and it's going to give you the outputs that you're expecting. So it's one less thing to think about when there's already so much to think about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a good point. And especially if they're doing dealing with high volume, a lot of remote workers or remote locations. So having it simplified in one place, kind of one-stop shop for their needs.
SPEAKER_00That's that's really great. And just having the customer trust us to be able to bring them from the old on-prem to the cloud and then to the new, and really seeing that just ease of migration and the confidence that they had in it, it was really something that has helped us even now double down even further on how can we make that even more efficient and even less stressful. So we're big on partnerships, not pirate ships. And so instead of it always being a take-take relationship, like we're always trying to find ways to give back to our customers, partners, as we call them, so that they feel it's mutually beneficial and a real relationship.
Dashboards And Built In ERP Integrations
SPEAKER_01But works best when it's mutually beneficial. So, Eric, what are what are some of the new things that MetaViewer Metaphile are planning to introduce? And tell us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00As everyone is pretty much becoming 100% cloud-based and with the SaaS offering, we're not only looking at continually adding new ERP integrations into our offering that become the integrated in, not the layer on top of. So that way you're not having to spend that much more time having to go through it. But by being able to always add those pieces to it, you can have the visual look that if if I'm the CFO, I can look, see all my bar graphs, pie charts. It's like I'm looking at my stock return and we used green. So that way everything, everything always looks like it's good, right? That's our new colors. So when you look at it, it's like, oh wow, this is this is great. Like now I see I have five in five approvals that are in the queue. Like, oh, this one seems like it's been waiting. Why is it waiting? Oh, it's over here with Sarah. No, Sarah doesn't have a backup. So why don't I follow up with our manager, Eric, and see see what's going on there so we can get that, just keep moving it along. It also allows so just that visual dashboard, the ability to do analytics, all the data that is being pulled from the process that's already occurring. We offer all that data back to the customer so that they can understand and what customers have the biggest leg and paying, what customers are often invoicing us that and where the invoice is different from where the PO was. So it really gives the our clients the ability to have a deeper understanding of what's going on with their vendors, right? Like if we can help you have a better strategy, then you're finding more ways to spend your time differently, and that makes you happier.
SPEAKER_01And everyone's gonna think that would help when you go talk to those vendors for kind of that ongoing relationship. Maybe you're renewing a contract. It's great to have that data to kind of reference.
SPEAKER_00These are all things that we've like we have just released, in all honesty. We we probably don't do enough, like, hey, guess what, guess what? We've just done we know what we do and we're very proud of it, but we don't really we don't often call it out because it's just not who we are. But there's a ton of ton of like anything that a customer is gonna need or a partner is looking for in terms of signing up someone to go to market with and figure out a solution. If you ask it, we will we will figure it out. The worst thing that could happen is you get a next maybe next opportunity.
Bringing Legacy History Into The Cloud
SPEAKER_01Okay. So we talked about some of the new things. What else are you doing to help customers on their journey to the cloud? I noticed you mentioned like that one customer that they were on GP, they went to the cloud on GP, then they moved to Business Central. What else are you doing to help clients that have those customers on legacy applications?
SPEAKER_00Right. And so if they're if they're on those legacy applications and they're looking to move to the cloud and introduce the the automation and at the same time as going to a new ERP, and we're really trying to double down on making sure that it's more of a volume play than a per user play, because we want you to bring the whole company over. We don't don't want you to bring segments over because then you're you're creating just more work on your own back end, like you're not automating things if everyone's more silos differently. Exactly. The whole idea is let's get rid of the silos. So just looking at the volume of documentation on that first initial pass, we come in very much way below what market average would be in terms of like costing because why not come in? We're not going to charge you for having a history. You have a history which allowed you to grow to where you are today, so you can continue to grow to where you're gonna be tomorrow. So we want to accept you today based on as if you're brand new, not as if you have to bring over all this documentation, but you need you need to bring it over, and so we're here to help do that, and it just really gives you that you get to control alt-delete the old ways, but still have all that data accessible, but now it's at the tip of your fingers.
SPEAKER_01A lot of people moving to a new ERP, they want to keep all their history for whatever reason, audits or just being able to go back for historical purposes, especially businesses where the creator, like the founder, is still involved, right?
SPEAKER_00When you get that like nostalgia, and so they're never gonna want to get rid of that stuff, but they also don't want to pay a lot of money to have it there. So why don't why can't we let's offer that? Like that's that's our way of saying, like, hey, thanks for choosing us. Let's join the let's go into this relationship together symbiotically.
Training Resets Sandbox And White Glove Go Live
SPEAKER_01So so Eric, if someone starts on a legacy system and they let's say everybody's trained and everything's working well, and they say, Okay, we're gonna now go to or gonna go to Business Central or Acumatica, do the team have to be retrained, or is it pretty much for them just a normal day in the business? It's just in the back end, something like that.
SPEAKER_00I mean, like we'll we'll offer one day of training just to like if anything, it's because we probably haven't done the training in a long time. We trained the trainer back when they would have first been in that system. And now that they've right now that they've moved, like some people have just kind of picked up whatever habits the person showed them when they got the job, which is still great, right? But I mean, I don't drive at 10 and 2 anymore, so like I don't want to be the one teaching my daughter one day to drive, like so. She's driving like that. I want her to be learned taught the proper way how to do your steering wheel. Same thing here, like it just gives us a chance to kind of level set, reset, but that's part of the savings. Yeah, so long loyalty is almost penalized across in the world. If you go to one bank and you're brand new, you get an iPad. But if you've been at that bank 10 years, then you open another account, you just get a kick in the shin. Like, where's the advantage of being loyal to that bank? And so we look at it the same way like loyalty is should be rewarded. It's a new integration, like it's a new path.
SPEAKER_01If you're going from GP to Manica or Business Central, there's different structures and account numbers and things. So, yeah, you're right. A good update kind of reset the tribal knowledge that maybe wasn't actually correct, right?
SPEAKER_00That was passed along. We'll also give you, like we also set you up with the sandbox, regardless of whether we're parallel to your ear, people kick off, or you decide to come to us after the fact. But the sandbox allows not only us to go in there and show you and help you really get you and roll up your sleeves, but allows the users to really get a handle for it. So when they do go live and they they move into our white club service for that final month where you don't have to call customer care, you just call the project team because they know your system inside and out and they can help walk you through it. So we're always instead of telling you what to do, we're guiding you, we're teaching you to fish instead of giving you the fish, if you will.
From AP Automation To PO To Payment
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. I love that. Well, I think we kind of already talked about some of the things on the horizon, but just kind of in general, what are you saying being developed in this space? Document management, AP automation.
SPEAKER_00I think that you're gonna see a lot of the AP automation side really be able to just take it from PO to payment. So all the way from that purchase order approval all the way down to the payment side. I mean, currently we have a partnership with core, right? I mean, that's great. We have a partnership with CorPay, so we do have that functionality natively now within our software if if it's requested. But a lot of businesses are still also paying with check, Carol. So the idea that we're putting$250,000 check in the mail is you know blows my mind, but it's what they've always done. There's not the same, there's not the same charge, if you will. And so it's just like it's a changing of just the approach. And so I think there's gonna be a lot more automation that just takes that one step beyond AP automation. Yeah, and then I also think that uh you're gonna start to see. I mean, if if not with anyone else, definitely from MetaViewer, you're gonna start to see more partnerships within the ISV world. So if someone is doing job costing and someone's doing AP automation, if they integrate together and then they can be part of an ERP, now you're offering a full-on solution that a whole industry can gobble up instead of it just being going after like everyone trying to sell piecemeal and then hoping that when it all shakes out, they're still in the foray. If you sell a solution, then you're selling value right off the hop.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So when a partner is presenting a solution set, it's all seamless, right? And exactly that those two ISVs are gonna work together to make sure that things are taken care of, because usually you get this, right? The finger pointing when something is not working, it's like, well, it's not us, it's a software.
SPEAKER_00Right. That's the old way. And I I really think like yeah, I think there's a there is a changing just of the mindset because I think that if we keep doing the old way, I mean, if you look at the ERPs, for example, that we mentioned here today with dynamics and with Acumatica, they have native automations that are slowly starting to build into they're acquiring companies that have that capability. The nice part about that is that tongue in cheek, I guess, as I say this, but every time they try to focus on the that add-on to the ERP, they just have so many balls in the air that it it's just not going to offer the same complexity and breadth of outputs that an ISV who just focuses on that does. But that's why partnering with other ISVs, it's industry specialists and experts coming together to make a solution that's most like sellable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, that's true. It does seem to be a trend that the ERP software publishers themselves are building it in and offering that. But I feel like it's enough to check a box on a checklist. Like, do you have AP automation? Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes, right.
SPEAKER_01But it's it's maybe not robust enough or have all the more advanced capabilities that a business needs.
SPEAKER_00It's not, but it's so, but but where it does work, like where it's winning, that I think is a bit of a change, is that if someone's going from a manual process of being forced off GP in their mind because it is being end of life that and then they go to FNO. Well, it's a big jump GP definitely it it happens. F and O, Acumatica, even they're starting to introduce it with GC and you've never had automation, it's good enough to get them started. The problem is then they start to want more, and that's where it falters because they don't have that built out, they don't have that on the roadmap to offer more. And that's where really like as the ISVs and us that are in the automation space and just overall back office improvement space, that's where we can really come in and help show them like what the art of the possible looks like and how many different ways they can get to the same end game, but what else they can accomplish along that journey?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So maybe kind of looking at box always makes sense of what's available in the software, but right. Usually there's more complicated business processes in the real world, right?
SPEAKER_00So I mean, if you're if you're completely out of the box and you're using Microsoft ERP and you don't need anything else, like I I would just stop listening to this podcast, write a book, and go on tour because everyone's gonna everyone's gonna come see that that talk. I mean, I'll buy three, I'll come to three different cities to see it because I would love to know, I would love to be able to build that business, but there's always something that comes up. There's some pivot that happens. It's almost human nature, like you have to pivot.
Partner Differentiation In A Crowded Market
SPEAKER_01Well, Eric, I'm just a kind of in conclusion, is there kind of one trend that you're seeing that partners or customers are coming to talk to you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I think the main trend, yeah. Um I maybe I'll break it out because I think customers are coming to talk to us, or potential customers are coming to talk to us because uh the trend is that there's change in the air, the change is being forced, and because there's change being forced, yeah, now's the time to uh build it all in and then uh play out what that looks like instead of it always being like on the list after doing a strategic meeting in December, but then it just gets kicked down the road because there's things pop up, and that's how it works. Now with the forced evolution of their ERP, there's a lot more like we like we're just gonna do this because like this is this is where we're at in the business. So I think that is the trend really seeing like as a customer approaches us from the partner side. Yeah, the trend is just the partners have so much opportunity to sell down various avenues, but they're never really like no one, no one works with them, like, yeah, go sell this for me, and then they walk away. And I think the trend of going to battle uh together as the same army really helps you be able to bring a solution and go after customer bases, it gives you a differentiator. So partners are looking for the ISVs to add a differentiation into their go-to-market, and customers are just looking for but if there's ever going to be a time, we might as well do it at the time of total chaos without even realizing how much comfort we're gonna offer them in knowing that they can trust how the software works.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, good. It's all all about trust in the end, right? Partners trustees celebrating.
SPEAKER_00We should just celebrate that we're making that we make everyone's life better. Like if you can wake up and at the end of the day say you made someone's life that much better than it was when you woke up, celebrate that. Like that's a that's a huge win in this world.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00I love that. Carol, what what are you seeing in the market? Like in talking to ISVs, what do you see as a trend? Did you see anything partner-wise that comes up in your readings?
SPEAKER_01Well, like you said, partners want to know what is unique. This is such a crowded space. Just tell me what's unique because I can't keep track of all of them. Others recognize that the software publisher have put functionality or done partnerships themselves with certain market leaders, right, in each category. And so then they're trying to figure out well, why would I want to add another AP automation when it's already there's already this option, right? And then the other is I I just think partners are trying to find, okay, let's get a couple that we trust and we know do a good job and are gonna do the right thing for us and our customers. And then they they're just gonna keep going back and provide repeat business because they're too busy. I don't have time to talk to every new AP automation solution out there, right?
SPEAKER_00So I can trust Eric at MetaView. I'll pass them off because he's gonna get that deal done and then it's a win-win and away we go.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, and so I see a lot of people trying to settle on and vet their go-to partners, right? And I try to encourage them to think about more than one, and sometimes they do, and sometimes they're like, no, we only use this one.
SPEAKER_00So I know my boss is probably wondering why I say this, but in every meeting, I say, if we're the only customer and only product you're looking at, please go and find one or two more. Yeah, and just because you want to make sure you do your diligence. You're making a decision, we're just a piece of the pie when it comes to your overall back office, but do your diligence.
Due Diligence Trust And Repeat Partnerships
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think customers expect that. I feel like when I was on the VAR side, and when I was a customer, I was like, Well, I don't want to just take one. I feel like I need to do my due diligence, right? Do you have some others that you work with? And I want to know that because if that partner is recommending them, I know they're gonna be accountable too. Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01So they're on the hook, yeah. So it's always better, I think, as a partner to come in and be that trusted advisor and guide them and provide them options. And so I I encourage partners to think, hey, I know you have your go-to, but a lot of them are pretty open to that though. Like what makes them different? And so the the thing that makes it tough is finding out why this one's unique. And they follow different stratas in the market, right? Like some are probably low-in functionality, maybe not a lot of options on workflows. And then you get the higher end, which you can get customization on everything, but it costs a zillion dollars, right? So there has to be kind of like figuring out where their budget is, where it fits in the market, and what's gonna best suit that customer as they scale and grow. So there's a lot of things to think about. And unfortunately, I don't know that partners spend the time that they should on evaluating that. But again, like when I was a partner, I always want to bring in two. And then I would say we do a demo with both. We'd kind of do our own kind of re debrief with them and say, here's what one thing they do really well, here's another thing that this one does better, right? So you're kind of helping them and guiding them. Maybe you just say, Hey, you just need to go with this one. I I have some partners are like, listen, we just get an agreement with them and we get a margin. I'm not gonna recommend anybody else. And it's like right, because it's what's in it from them, and they're not they also know that it's gonna be delivered properly for the client.
SPEAKER_00Like, sure, they're only bringing one to the table, but if they know that that partner, that vendor is gonna go and deliver the output that the client needs, then I mean there's trust in that too, right? Like you've proven your your weight and gold for them to then just push you forward because a lazy partner doesn't become a repeat partner. I mean, a lazy salesperson doesn't become a repeat salesperson either. Like, it's all opportunistic, right?
SPEAKER_01It's uh what we call popcorn. Uh popped up. We have an opportunity, let's let's get that and move on. That sale. Yeah, I feel like when partners form a relationship with a trusted ISV and they've vetted them, they know and they've trusted each other and they've worked through situations good and bad, then it's a much stronger solution when they come in together to present that to the client and knowing that they're gonna work through whatever comes up because there's gonna be challenges.
SPEAKER_00For sure. There always is.
Closing Thoughts On Making Work Better
SPEAKER_01There always is. Well, thank you, Eric, for being on today's episode of ISV Talks and sharing about MetaViewer and what you're seeing in the marketplace. Really great discussion today.